MICHAEL MOORE "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY" DOCUMENTARY On 'Larry King Live' - "When Unemployment Rises, So Does Stock Market! Capitalists Love High Unemployment! Salaries/Wages Corp. Fixed Costs"

MICHAEL MOORE

“CAPITALISM: 

A LOVE STORY”

DOCUMENTARY On

‘Larry King Live’ –

“When

Unemployment

Rises, So Does

Stock Market!

Capitalists Love

High

Unemployment!

Your Salaries &

Wages Are

Corporations’

Largest Fixed

Cost” - UP YOURS!

 http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/23/lkl.01.html

CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Interview with Michael Moore

Aired September 23, 2009 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS)

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: This is Michael Moore. I am here to make a citizens arrest of the board of directors of AIG.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Michael Moore -- he's back and asking where your money went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS)

MOORE: We're here to get the money back for the American people. I've got more bags. $10 billion probably won't fit in here. And just drop it from a -- from the window.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Why is big business getting billions from the government when ordinary folks are losing their homes?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS)

MOORE: But that's OK. If you can't repay it, we'll just take your house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Their health.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty years of our lives have been spent fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Their hope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS) MOORE: Did I say retired?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Is capitalism the cause of an American nightmare, not key to the American dream?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS)

MOORE: If one job doesn't pay all the bills, don't worry. You can get another one and another one and another one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Michael Moore -- whether he's right on or dead wrong, he's next for the hour on LARRY KING LIVE.

It has been 20 years since Michael Moore took on General Motors in "Roger and Me". He's still sticking it to big business for what he sees as the deliberate shafting of the little guy.

Just take a look at "Capitalism: A Love Story".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS)

MOORE: We're here to get the money back for the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand, sir. But you can't come in the back.

MOORE: You can just take the bag?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

MOORE: Take it up there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, absolutely not!

MOORE: Fill it up. I've got more bags. $10 billion probably won't fit in here.

We want our money back.

(CROSSTALK)

Have you seen this guy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.

MOORE: OK. We're -- we're here to make a citizen's arrest, actually.

And just drop it from a -- from the window.

And everywhere I went...

I'm going to take it back to the U.S. Treasury right in this car. It's safe. You can trust me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Here he is, Michael Moore.

You've described this movie -- and I've seen this movie. And I'll tell you, whether people agree or disagree with it. Maybe we'll get people who disagree with it -- and there will be people who disagree -- this is a brilliant documentary. You are our number one propagandist, in the good sense that a propagandist presents their viewpoint very well. Maybe no one does it better.

You describe this movie as the culmination of all the films you've made.

Does that mean this is it?

MOORE: No. I hope not. It means that, for 20 years, as you said, I've been doing this. I started out by showing people what General Motors was up to and how this was a company that was making a lot of bad decisions and it wasn't good for the company nor for the country. That was 20 years ago.

And since then, I've covered a number of issues and different things. But it all seems to come back to this one issue of follow the money.

Who's got the money?

And whoever has the money has the power. And right now, in America, tonight, Larry, the richest 1 percent have more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent combined!

KING: You're in that 1 percent, though?

MOORE: Well, I don't know if I'm in -- I don't think I'm in that 1 percent, but I...

KING: No, 1 percent...

MOORE: But I...

KING: (INAUDIBLE).

MOORE: I mean listen (INAUDIBLE) I make documentary films. But I mean, obviously, I do well because my films have done well. But, you know, I -- look, even if I were, I think it's my responsibility -- my moral duty that if I've done well, that I have to make sure that everybody else...

KING: Does well too or has a chance?

MOORE: Well, has at least a chance but that -- and that the pie is divided fairly amongst the people and not just a few people get the majority of the loot and everybody else has to struggle for the crumbs.

KING: Are you saying capitalism is a failure?

MOORE: Yes. Capitalism! Yes. Well, I don't have to say it. Capitalism, in the last year, has proven that it's failed. All the basic tenets of what we've talked about the free market, about free enterprise and competition just completely fell apart. As soon as they lost, essentially, our money, they came running to the federal government for a bailout -- for welfare, for socialism. (Tabacco: I told you so!) And it -- it -- I thought the basic principle of capitalism was that it's about a -- it's a sink or swim situation. And those who do well, the cream rises to the top and, you know, those who invest their money wrongly or, you know, don't run their business the right way, then they don't do well.

And if you run your business the wrong way, where does it say that you or I or anybody watching this has to bail them out!

I understand -- I understand why everybody seemed to get behind it, because a lot of people were afraid, because these people down on Wall Street had taken our money and made bets with it. I mean, they essentially created this invisible virtual casino with people's money -- people's pension funds, people's 401(k)s. They took this money and they made bets. And then they made bets on the bets. And then they took out insurance policies on the bets. And then they took out insurance against the insurance -- the credit default swaps.

KING: You started...

(CROSSTALK)

KING: You started filming before Lehman Brothers went belly up.

MOORE: Yes.

KING: The stock market tanked.

Now, how did the events as it occurred affect the movie?

MOORE: Well, obviously...

KING: Did it change gears?

MOORE: It didn't change in terms of what I was looking at, but it did -- it did, obviously, offer probably the best example of why this is a system that is really corrupt at its core -- corrupt because it doesn't, it isn't run with democratic -- small "d" democratic principles. There's no democracy in our economy. You and I and the people watching have no say in how this economy is run. The upper 1 percent, the people down on Wall Street, the corporate executives, they're the people that control this economy.

KING: And they don't want to see the economy do well?

They don't want to see people...

MOORE: Oh, they sure do. They want (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Don't they want people to make money so they can buy the products?

I mean it's silly if they...

MOORE: No.

KING: They want people unemployed?

MOORE: Oddly enough, yes.

KING: Why?

MOORE: It's crazy, isn't it?

I'll tell you why. Because your employees are your biggest success. And, as you've noticed in the last few months, as the unemployment rate has gone up, so has the Dow Jones. Now, you'd think, you know, that Wall Street would respond with oh, my God, unemployment is going up, you know, this is bad for business. But the reality is, is that Wall Street likes that. They like it when companies fire people because immediately the bottom line is going to show a larger profit.

KING: Are you saying the investor is more important than the employee?

MOORE: Yes. The investor -- and the investor, these days, they want the short-term, quick profit and they want it now. But in the long-term, here's what happened. When I was on this show 20 years ago -- 20 years ago this week, I was here with "Roger and Me".

KING: I remember.

MOORE: And General Motors, that year, made a profit of $4 billion. And yet they had just laid off another 30,000 people.

Now, why would you lay people off when you're making a record profit of $4 billion?

I mean that was totally insane. But they thought, well, you know, we can make a bigger profit. Maybe we can make $4.2 billion if we move those jobs to Mexico. And so they're always, you know, we can make a little bit more money if we do this. By firing those workers, Larry, they got rid of the very people who buy their cars.

KING: The movie opened today in New York and Los Angeles and opens wide next week, right?

MOORE: A week from Friday, on October 2nd.

KING: The movie is "Capitalism: A Love Story".

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Agree or disagree, "Capitalism: A Love Story" is one heck of a documentary. We saw it. You should see it -- again, whether you agree or disagree, you should -- you should see it.

You talk about legalized greed in connection with what's happened to this economy.

Are people hard-wired to be greedy?

Is it inert?

MOORE: Yes.

KING: Are we naturally greedy?

MOORE: I think so. I think it's part of our human nature.

KING: So if you're greedy, I'm greedy, we're all...

MOORE: I think it's -- well, I think it's -- yes, I think it's -- there's this dark side to us as a species -- greed, violence.

KING: So how would you weed that out?

MOORE: Well, what we've learned to do as a society over hundreds or thousands of years is to create certain structures that sort of keep these bad impulses in check. And up until the late '90s, we had regulations and rules to keep the greed down on Wall Street in check. But starting in the final years of the Clinton administration...

KING: And you take them on, too.

MOORE: Absolutely.

KING: Yes.

MOORE: They -- they began cutting away these regulations. And when George W. Bush came in -- there's actually an actual photograph of -- of two of Bush's administrative -- two of the employees in the administration with a chain saw and these hedge clippers cutting the regulations when they finally got rid of all the regulations and the banks and the financial institutions could run wild.

So...

KING: Do you think they made the inmates run the asylum...

MOORE: Yes.

KING: They let...

MOORE: Yes, I -- yes, absolutely. I mean it -- there was nobody in charge and so they just ran wild with the money.

KING: However, your opposition to government bailouts, which you've discussed on this show before, sounds a lot of the stuff that hard core conservatives say. They were opposed to the bailouts.

MOORE: Yes.

KING: So are you conservative in some aspects?

MOORE: Well, I'm conservative, actually, in a lot of aspects of my -- of my life. But...

KING: But you were opposed to the bailout.

MOORE: Yes. And I...

KING: So were they, right?

MOORE: Yes. And I think I -- well, then I think that there's common ground that people can find. Now, how I would go about fixing this and how they would go about fixing it, you know, is different, because a lot of them are opposed to the bailout because the bailout was going to protect the teacher's pension fund in California and they don't want to do that so they are against the bailout.

And the reason why good Democrats were in favor of the bailout is because there was a -- there was a real fear that what if those pension funds just evaporate?

What if we do nothing and then suddenly, all these teachers, all these cops, everybody is -- is out of money?

Well, you know what, they got the bailout and people are still out of money. People who lost their 401(k)s or part of their 401(k)s are gone, the -- you showed the clip there where I'm down on Wall Street. And I saw the cops coming up to me there. And I'm thinking oh, you know, they're going to arrest me, I'm -- and I tried to say officers, you know, I'm just doing this for some comedy here. And one of the cops said to me, that's OK, Mike. The guys inside this building, they lost a billion dollars of the New York City police pension fund. You just stay here as long as you want.

KING: We've got another clip of "Capitalism: A Love Story". It's an explanation of the housing market and the mortgage meltdown.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY", COURTESY OVERTURE FILMS)

MOORE: The scam to swindle people out of the homes they already owned was masterful. Here's how it worked.

First, tell these homeowners that they own a bank and that bank is your home. You're sitting on a gold mine. You own your own bank -- the bank of you. And you could use your bank to get more money -- just refinance. Everyone's doing it. Of course, hidden in the dozens or hundreds of pages of fine print are tricky clauses that allow the bank to raise your interest rate to a number you didn't know about, perhaps so high that you won't be able to repay your loan. But that's OK, if you can't repay it, we'll just take your house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, you dramatically show foreclosures in this movie. At times, you will cry when you watch it.

But does the bank want to do foreclosure?

I mean what does a bank want to do with your foreclosed house?

It don't make sense.

Why would they want to foreclose?

MOORE: It's...

KING: Why would they make the situation so bad that they foreclose?

MOORE: They would prefer that you pay the outrageous interest rates. They would prefer to keep ballooning your -- your payments up and up and -- and take that money from you.

But if you can't do it, then suddenly the bank owns property. And, as you know, there's really nothing better to own than property, because it's a...

KING: The bank wants to own the house?

MOORE: The bank -- the bank, on some level, wants to own the house, because suddenly the bank now owns land. And the more land it can accumulate, the more powerful it is. I know, I mean it's crazy. But it -- these -- these banks set this up. They structured this. And this was -- and the FBI issued this report. They said that 80 percent of this mortgage fraud has been caused by the banks and the lending institutions, not the people taking out a loan.

You know, when we -- when the crash first happened we heard how people were taking out these loans, they shouldn't have been buying these houses they couldn't afford and all that.

That's a very small piece of this. The vast majority of the fraud was committed by the banks and the financial institutions. And there's no real investigation done by the Justice Department as to who did this, how they did it and why they got away with it.

KING: So you're saying crimes occurred here?

MOORE: I believe crimes may have occurred here and I think I...

KING: But you were making citizen's arrests on Wall Street?

MOORE: Well, yes. Right. I'm not convicting them. But you if suspect someone has committed a crime, usually the police will come by and pay you a visit. You know, if they suspected you. I suspect that these crimes have been committed. You know, people's money was taken and -- and used recklessly and lost.

Where did it go?

What happened to all these mortgages that got chopped up, bundled and shipped to China or wherever else they went?

KING: Yes. One of the top news stories this week is health care reform. Of course, Michael's film, "Sicko", focused on house care -- health care, rather.

We'll get his take on the president's plan and we'll be back in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Michael Moore's 2007 film, "Sicko", is credited with helping push health care reform front and center of the political agenda.

Here's a little of that Oscar-nominated documentary.

You'll remember it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "SICKO", COURTESY DOG EAT DOG FILMS)

MOORE: Yes, there are nearly 50 million Americans with no health insurance. They pray every day they don't get sick, because 18,000 of them will die this year, simply because they're uninsured. And by the end of the week, over 25,000 people have sent me their health care horror stories.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were investigating whether or not this was a pre-existing condition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not medically necessary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They claim that it's experimental.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't consider that life-threatening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've given the entire health care system over to the insurance industry.

MOORE: Eight hundred billion of our tax dollars to the drug and health insurance industry, by letting the drug companies charge whatever they wanted. Here's what it cost to buy these men. And this woman, this guy and this guy and him, too. And the biggest check we'll save for last. And many Americans knew they were never going to see universal health care. And that's why some of them decided to look elsewhere for help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which way to Guantánamo Bay?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detainees representing a threat to our national security are given access to top notch medical facilities.

MOORE: Wow! So there was actually one place on American soil that had free universal health care. That's all I needed to know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Lest you think Michael Moore lets Democrats off the hook, wait until you see what's next.

Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Before you think liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, before you see this movie, be open.

Michael Moore's movie includes an interview with Robert Feinberg, a former official with Countrywide Financial. He handled what that company termed VIP loans. Senator Dodd financed two mortgages through that VIP program and he gets a rap in this movie.

We asked the senator to comment on the allegations of impropriety. His office issued a statement to us today and it says, in part: "Mr. Feinberg's charges have been repeatedly and definitively discredited by those who've taken the time to look at all the facts. The Republicans and the Democrats of the Senate Ethics Committee, multiple media outlets nationally and in Connecticut that have closely followed the story and independent third parties. There was no sweetheart deal. The Dodds got the same mortgages anyone else could have gotten. Mr. Moore does his reputation for accuracy a considerable disservice by uncritically repeating these false allegations."

You may comment.

MOORE: I didn't repeat them. Senator Dodd's loan officer at Countrywide, on camera and with the documents present -- we show them right in the film -- these -- these sweetheart loans that the senator got. Now, when I say a sweetheart loan, what I mean is, in the Ethics Committee...

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: ...even though they've cleared him, which, of course, what they mean -- when the senators clear each other, they mean to say we don't think he did anything we wouldn't do.

So -- but they did stay in their report that it does appear that he got these loans quicker than the average person would have got them and that there may have been some discounts and maybe some things that got waived -- you know, moved -- we don't need this paperwork, we can move this thing along.

The question here is, is that Countrywide, which was really known for these subprime loans -- these really kind of crap loans that they gave to people whose credit wasn't very good and charged these high interest rates -- were charging really low. They were really kind of the lowest interest rates anybody could get -- to Senator Dodd. And he would call up Robert Feinberg in person and -- and do these -- get these loans, to get these loans refinanced through him.

Now, I think Chris Dodd has been a great senator. I think he's really -- in the presidential debates, he said something I thought was absolutely right on. Most people probably watching this don't know that if you make over $110,000 a year -- those who make over $110,000 a year pay zero Social Security tax on anything over $110,000. So all the rest of Americans pay a flat tax on their entire income, but you and I, Larry, and other people who make over $110,000 a year, we pay zero percent after $110,000. We don't pay a flat 7 percent on all of our salary.

KING: Well, are you saying Chris Dodd shouldn't have taken those loans?

MOORE: No, no, no. He -- yes, well (INAUDIBLE). I'm just trying to say something, you know, good about the man.

KING: You're also very critical...

MOORE: But -- yes, but I -- but I think that -- listen, here's -- here's the bottom line. He's the head of the Banking Committee. It's his job to be the watchdog of these banks and these lending institutions. He shouldn't do anything that even has the appearance of favoritism or impropriety.

KING: You're also very critical of the Secretary of the Treasury.

Why?

MOORE: Well, I interview one of the top bank regulators from the savings and loan scandal. He's one of the guys who really caught -- caught these guys back in the '80s. And he says on camera, when I ask him, you know, tell me about Tim Geithner, he says, well, here's an individual who essentially has failed. He failed as the head of the New York Fed. It was his job to be the watchdog over what was going on down on Wall Street these last few years.

So all of these derivatives, credit default swaps, all this stuff during his term as the head of the New York Fed, the whole thing falls apart under his watch and he's rewarded by being made Secretary of the Treasury. It's a classic example of -- as this regulator, Bill Black, says in the film, of -- of how you rise to the top in Washington, DC.

KING: You also have a hysterical -- an hysterical time trying to get a definition of derivatives.

Do you know what a derivative is now?

MOORE: It's a bet. It's essentially a bet. It's -- you're taking a bet out on a stock option and then you can do derivatives off those derivatives. So you can take a bet then out on the bet.

KING: What am I betting?

MOORE: You're -- you're -- you're betting whether or not that particular stock is going to go a certain way or not. Instead of -- in other words, you're already betting when you buy a share of stock...

KING: That's true. Right.

MOORE: So you're taking the risk. You're saying I think this company will do well, but that's -- that's my bet.

But now -- but then they started creating these crazy schemes. And I -- I go down to the Stock Exchange in the movie and I -- I ask all the traders as they're coming out of work, can anybody explain what a derivative is to me because I'm completely lost here. And then finally one guy says he do it, a guy from Lehman Brothers. And then he can't do it. I mean he tries over and over and over again.

KING: So I'm betting that a stock could lose and I could make money by betting on the loss?

Tabacco: At last! Larry asks a credible question!

MOORE: Yes. Yes.

KING: So a derivative is a bet that's different from the bet of buying a stock?

MOORE: That's correct. Right. Right. And then you can take out credit default insurance. So you can take out insurance on it in case -- just in case your bet is wrong, you can take insurance out on that.

KING: It's like insurance at Black Jack.

MOORE: Exactly. Right.

KING: All right.

Michael will be taking your phone calls.

Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MOORE, PRODUCER: Congressman? Congressman? Governor Bush, it's Michael Moore?

GEORGE W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Go find real work.

MOORE: Hello!

I have one question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Motion adjourn. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Michael Moore is the guest. The film is "Capitalism: A Love Story". He tells me that it opened two places today, New York and Los Angeles, and did three times what "Slumdog Millionaire" did, per theater, per capita, on its opening day, and that opened on a Friday. And it doubled "Sicko", right?

MOORE: Yes, the studio just told me before I cam in. Apparently the first day has done quite well.

KING: Let's take a call for Michael Moore. Tulsa, Oklahoma, hello.

CALLER: Hello. I'm 15 years old. I was wondering what you think my generation is going to have to do to come back from these economic times?

KING: Good question.

MOORE: Yes. First of all, you're owed an apology from my generation. And your children -- your future children are owed an apology. This is -- Larry, we are throwing this debt, this incredible debt, both from the two wars that we're in right now and from the bailout of Wall Street on to this next generation.

I would tell you, in terms of just as you think about as you get ready, get close to adulthood, on that first day of college in three years, you're going to see a lot of tables when you go to sign up on the first day. And they're going to be all the credit card companies. And they're going to try to get you to sign up for a credit card, even though you don't have a job. They'll give you a 5,000-dollar credit limit. They're going to get you in hock so deep. Right now, I believe is average is, by the time a student graduates from college, they've got 6,000 dollars of credit card debt, and 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 50,000 dollars -- I know people that have 80,000 dollars of student loan debt.

When I went to school, Larry, you didn't go to a private bank to get a loan for 20 years. You went to the financial aid office. And in that office, you got a grant, or a scholarship, or work-study. Maybe you had to work at the library ten hours a week. Or maybe there was a low-interest loan for one or two percent from the college. You pay it back when you can.

That's the way it was. If you lived in New York or California, at many of the colleges, you went to school for free. Now this young man, what he has ahead of him is if is going to have to -- if he has to get a student loan, for instance, for four years of college, 20,000 dollars a year, 80,000 dollars, that means that by the time he actually pays it off in 20 to 30 years, he will have paid that bank at least a half a million dollars just to go to school.

You know, we improve our society by having our children go to school and better themselves. That's how the society grows. That's how we make things better. KING: Hopefully.

MOORE: But -- so I would just encourage you to, you know, watch your money. There's lots of hands that want to get in your wallet. And be conservative with it.

KING: You are very rough on Goldman Sachs, concluding they run the country almost. Both administrations. You backed Obama. He supported bailouts. He took a lot of campaign contributions from Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs employees work for him. Do you feel let down?

MOORE: No, I think he's part of the system. It's a broke system. It's a system where money calls the shots. We have to get money out of our political system. We need publicly financed elections. We need the candidates to be given airtime. But that's it.

We got to do this like the other western countries do it. They don't allow this kind of money inside of their politics. You're right, President Obama, Goldman Sachs employees were his number one private contributors. I say that in the film, even though I support the man, and I'm wishing him the best, and I'm all behind him. But I think the people have the right to know that he, too, took this money. And now we're waiting to see whether or not he's going to be on our side or on Wall Street's side.

KING: Is he going to get health care reform?

MOORE: Well, I certainly hope so; 75 percent of the American people are expecting it. That's what the polls show. The majority of this country voted for him in large part because they want universal health care. The majority actually wants single-payer health care. So we're so far away from that right now.

President Obama's, I think, problem or mistake here is that he started out with a compromise position with this public option. He should have started with what he said in 2003, when he was first thinking of running for the U.S. Senate, when he said he supported a single-payer system. Start with that! If you have to compromise, fine, that's the art of politics. But to start with a compromised position --

Tabacco: That’s basically what I said in “CARDINAL ERROR IS NEGOTIATING WITH YOURSELF! Began With Single-Payer, Backpedaled To Public Option, Public Option Trigger, Public Option 4 Uninsurables+Tort Reform, Now 4-Year Plan -GOP Concedes Nada”

http://tabacco.blog-city.com/cardinal_error_is_negotiating_with_yourself_began_with_sing.htm

He had his base, nobody out there backing him up. You didn't see millions of people out there supporting him. But you did see people on the other side being very vocal. They ruled the day with it.

KING: One extraordinary thing in this movie, and you'll flip when you see it, is Michael Moore discovered an old film done by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, shortly before he died, about a new Bill of Rights. We'll ask about it when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was kind of a strange child. My parents knew earlier on that something must have been wrong with me. I crawled backwards until I was two. But I had Kennedy's Inaugural Address memorized by the time I was six.

It all began when my mother didn't show up for my first birthday party because she was off having my sister. My dad tried to cheer me up by letting me eat the whole cake. I knew then there had to be more to life than this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MOORE: Cake was a bad idea.

KING: Beautiful. My kid crawled backwards. Never crawled forwards, not until he was two.

MOORE: I'm so glad to hear that. All my life, I've been thinking, what was wrong with me?

KING: Chance crawled backwards. Now he's an all-star little league ballplayer.

MOORE: That didn't happen to me.

KING: There's hope for you. Before we take another call, tell me about this extraordinary Roosevelt film that we see near the end of your movie. A never before seen film!

MOORE: Just a little over a year before he died, he had the flu. He was sick. He knew he was near death. He was in the White House. And he wanted to tell the American people what he would like to see the United States be after the war would end and after his death.

So he proposed a second Bill of Rights to the U.S. Constitution. And that bill of rights was to guarantee Americans a decent job, universal health care, a pension in their old age, the right to have a decent home, all of these -- the basics.

KING: That was a socialist in concept, to guarantee that?
Tabacco: Socialism is NOT a 4-letter word! It contains 9-letters. Without SOCIALISM, the other 95% of us would become extinct under CAPITALISM! So much for the NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA!

You may say adults don’t need milk – but you don’t say that about babies, now do you!

MOORE: Well, I think what it was - it was the humane thing to do. It was -- he wasn't promising a home for everyone. But he was saying that we had a right to have a home.

KING: It would shock people. Why was it never seen?

MOORE: And no one ever saw this. He called these newsreel cameras in. He wanted to film this one piece.

KING: What happened to it?

MOORE: Nobody knows. It was lost.

KING: Where did you find it?

MOORE: My great team of archivists found it at the University of South Carolina. They had some old Fox Movie Tone newsreels.

KING: Was it ironic?

MOORE: It was not marked as anything other than the just a date on it. They went through it and they found it. And I am so honored to have this in my film, because the American people, Larry, next week, starting today, here in New York, are going to be able to see this for the first time, the way Roosevelt had hoped they would be able to see this.

KING: Let's take a call. Richmond, Ohio. Hello.

CALLER: Hello. Hi, Larry. Hi, Michael.

MOORE: Hi.

CALLER: Hey, I've got an issue. And I'm just wondering, you know, what Michael might think of it. Would Michael be willing to file a class action suit or some type of petition that all of us could jump on the way the federal government is double-dipping, basically, like Congress and such. They take money from special interest groups and they're not doing the government by the people, for the people.

MOORE: You know, I don't think we need to sue anybody. I think we need to start electing people who have, at the top of their platform, the removal of money from our political system. I want to hear candidates -- that's right, I want to hear candidates next year say that we should have, like all other western democracies, a form of publicly financed elections. Shorten the election season. Provide free time over the airwaves for the candidates. This would greatly reduce the attack ads. Of course, it would also reduce the income of CNN, but that's a separate story.

But this is crazy the way we do this now, because right now, for instance, on this health care thing, Larry, the health care industry is spending 1.4 million dollars a day on lobbyists, lobbying against universal health care. A day they're spending this. How does this guy calling in, or you or I or anybody out there have a snowball's chance to have our voices heard?

I mean, how else you can explain the fact that 75 percent of this country wants universal health care, and yet, we can't get it? Because we done have the money to give to these Congressmen.

KING: Get a break and come back. Michael Moore has been a moviemaker for 20 years now. We'll take a look at the film that started it all in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Michael Moore. "Capitalism: A Love Story" is being released on the 20th anniversary of "Roger and Me", the documentary about GM that made Michael Moore famous, or notorious, depending on your point of view. Trouble in the auto industry, massive economic fallout! Sound familiar? Take a look!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOORE: So this was GM Chairman, Roger Smith. He appeared to have a brilliant plan. First, close 11 factories in the U.S. Then open 11 in Mexico, where you pay the workers 70 cents an hour. Then use the money you save by building cars in Mexico to take over other companies, preferably high-tech firms and weapons manufacturers.

Next, tell the union you're broke. And they happily agree to give back a couple billion dollars in wage cuts. You then take that money from the workers and eliminate their jobs by building more foreign factories. Roger Smith was a true genius.

DAN RATHER, FMR CBS NEWS ANCHOR: General Motors confirmed it today. It is going to close plants employing almost 30,000 workers.

ROGER SMITH, FMR. CHAIRMAN, GM: Today, we are announcing the closing of 11 of our older plants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While Detroit and Pontiac will certainly be hurt by the shutdowns, the effect on Flint is absolutely devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Best thing they can do and General Motors can do is get rid of Roger Smith and them other son of a bitches.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sick and tired of these damn fat cats.

MOORE: As soon as I could, I headed down to Detroit to Roger's office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have an appointment?

MOORE: No, we're going to try to see Roger Smith.

Mr. Smith, we just came down from Flint, where we filmed a family being evicted from their home the day before Christmas Eve, a family that used to work in the factory. Would you be willing to come up with us, to see what the situation is like in Flint?

SMITH: I've been to Flint. I'm sorry for those people. I don't know anything about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: What can you add to that? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

KING: The young filmmakers, who triggered a firestorm against Acorn, they did undercover videos. Was that OK by your standards? MOORE: I haven't seen the videos.
Tabacco: The videos relate to INDIVIDUAL INDISCRETIONS – there is no evidence of corporate complicity on the part of Acorn itself! See how propaganda works!

In his TV ads, the New Jersey Republican, Chris Christie, blames Democratic Governor, John Corzine, for all those politicians, arrested for political malfeasance. Christie is the only one making that connection – maybe Christie wants Corzine’s job!

KING: Acorn has now filed a suit against them in connection with hidden camera videos shot in their Baltimore office. Acorn contending the audio portion was illegally obtained, because Maryland law requires a two-party consent for sound recordings. Do you do a lot of undercover?
Tabacco: No technicalities, please! Just show where Acorn is complicit! If employees crap in the bathroom, does Acorn have to wipe its butt!

MOORE: No, I don't. Actually, I -- my rule is that we don't do hidden camera.
Tabacco: Moore falls into Larry’s TRAP here! Shame on you, Mike!

No, in very few exceptions in these 20 years have I done that, because I think it's better to have the camera right there present. I think, actually, the camera becomes a character in the scene because people realize they're being filmed. And they're going to say or do something as a result of that.

KING: What do you make of the tea party protests?

MOORE: I think everybody has a right to get involved. Of course, I don't know how much that's being funded by certain interests associated with the health care industry. But nonetheless, these are people standing up for what they believe in. And liberals should quit complaining about that and say hey, we're the majority. Where are we? Why aren't we going to the town hall meetings? Why aren't we standing up for these things! (EXACTLY!)

KING: What do you think of President Carter's claim about racism being the underlying factor here?

MOORE: Well, I think President Carter, having grown up in the segregated south, knows it when he sees it. And it was a courageous thing I think for him to say. I think that's a part of it. I think that's there. You would have to be crazy not to know that it's there. And I give him a lot of credit for stating what I think a lot of people were thinking but nobody wants to say.

KING: We have a question Tweeted via Kings Things, please ask Mr. Moore to disclose his income and what he does to give back or pay it forward.

MOORE: Well, I do a lot of things. My wife and I just helped to pay for redoing the addition to the library in the town which we live in Michigan. We just bought a huge piece of land to give to the Land Conservatory to protect it for environmental reasons. We do a lot of things.

And I treat my employees quite well. They're paid really good wages. They have full health care and dental. My employees, there's no deductible in your health care. No deductible, absolutely not. You get paid sick days, as many as you need, personal days.
Tabacco: “Messengers” should be questioned re their financial motivations! But if you represent the establishment, that inquisition is a lot more relevant than it is with a Michael Moore, who speaks for the other 95%!

KING: Vacation in the south of France? I'm just asking.

MOORE: No.

KING: What do you spend money on wildly, go to Vegas?
Tabacco: Michael Moore must give all his money to Charity and must NEVER go to Vegas, while UnitedHealth, Goldman Sachs & Nancy Pelosi can hobnob with the Mafia in Apalachin if they so choose?!

Perhaps you understand Larry King logic – I do not!

MOORE: No, I'm on iTunes too much, buying too many songs.

KING: Do you buy cars?

MOORE: No, I have one car. It's a Chrysler minivan, about five years old, got about 100,000 miles on it. I do have a little fishing boat in Michigan. We have lots of lakes.

KING: Money in Switzerland?
Tabacco: Larry, you’re asking the wrong guy these questions! I don’t give a damn which listeners asked those questions – they simply are NOT APPLICABLE!

Corporate & Congressional Thieves can spend ill-gotten gain any way they want, but Good Guys must be above reproach and saintly? Hell, if Moore screwed small animals, Tabacco wouldn’t care!

MOORE: No money in Switzerland. I don't own a share of stock. I have no money in the stock market. My money is in pretty much a savings account and savings bonds, those kinds of things. But --
Tabacco: What if Moore did have Swiss bank accounts and admitted it, go to Vegas monthly, own stock in UnitedHealth – so what! If he attacks UnitedHealth against his own best interests, makes money legally and invests in unscrupulous corporations which he excoriates, then what!

Asking questions, to which the "wrong" answer would be little more than idle gossip, is TRIVIAL PURSUIT - of which Larry King is a Master! Remember, Larry picked the questions to pose!

KING: Another question Tweeted via Kings Things, gun control, health care, the war and now the economy. OK, you've done that. When is Michael Moore going to make a movie about climate change?

MOORE: Well, I think that movie's been made. Thank you, Al Gore. And other movies have been made since then. The topic is out there. And I think I need to, perhaps, you know, focus my attention on the things not receiving much attention.

KING: And you will now get a thrill when we come back. Michael Moore, the singer. You don't want to miss this.

MOORE: Don't make me sing here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOORE: Members of Congress, this is Michael Moore. I would like to read to you the U.S. Patriot Act.

I want the account where I can get the free gun.

There's wackos out there.

Of course, I was having a hard time finding my business card because I don't have any business cards. So I give Mr. Slaughter my discount pass at Chuck-E-Cheese.

Sweet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Our crack undercover team found out where you spend your money. Clothes. You are the dapper man of the year. You were runner-up for British GQ man of the year. Right?

MOORE: A few years ago, that was actually true. Of course, the Brits have a great sense of humor. KING: Obviously. You were a guest on Jay Leno's show last week and you sang. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY LENO, "THE JAY LENO SHOW": Ladies and gentlemen, the song stylings of Michael Moore.

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You're an Irish tenor. That's a nice voice. You can sing.

MOORE: Well, yes, I guess.

KING: Did you write that?

MOORE: No. You know, he has this new thing on the show where if they're going to show a clip from your movie, you got to sing a song or do something. So I agreed and did one Bob Dylan song. Thank you for that.

KING: Bob Dylan wrote that. I thought you wrote it. See where I am.

MOORE: No, but that's OK, though. It's kind of an obscure song from the '60s.

KING: I gather. If it's obscure, you'll find it. Another call for Michael Moore. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Hi, Michael. Mike, I think you're talking about corruption and greed. What does capitalism have to do with it?

So, you know, I don't believe in a system where the richest one percent should own or have as much financial wealth as the bottom 95 percent combined. I think that not only is that anti-democracy, it's also against my own personal values and the values of most people. We say we live in a Judeo-Christian nation, but I don't think if Jesus were around today -- I just don't think he'd be approving of this or participating in a hedge fund or playing the stock market.

KING: He's even in your movie.

MOORE: Yes, he has a role in my movie, because I imagined what if he were here, would he act and sound like a capitalist?

KING: You end the movie by saying capitalism must be replaced by a new system. And we pause and I thought you were going to say something else. You said, “democracy!”.

KING: Quickly.

MOORE: Yes. Let's quit having this debate of capitalism versus socialism. It's the 21st century. We are smart enough to come up with a new economic order that is fair, fair to all people, where we don't have so many people hurting. Right now, there's a foreclosure filing in America once every seven and a half seconds. That is absolutely outrageous. And it's time to start sticking up for the little guy in this country.

KING: Click in with CNN all day tomorrow. We're going to have a special guest you might be interested in. Check with us all day tomorrow. Right now -- Thanks again, Michael.

MOORE: Thanks. Next time I'll sing with you.

KING: It's that time of night.

(SINGING)

KING: It's that time of night. Here's Anderson Cooper with "AC 360". Anderson?



Tabacco: In ‘The Situation Room’ I have edited OUT those voices from the Right and Donna Brazile’s voice from the Left because they are CNN’s homage to ‘Political Correctness’ and MISINFORMATION. If you wish to read that BILGE, I supply URLs, which is a lot more than any Right-Wing blogger would ever do!

I have not edited out Wolf Blitzer’s questions and comments because without them, Moore would be offering up a Soliloquy!

Michael Moore himself undercuts his own rebukes of Obama because he understands Americans’ propensity to play POLITICAL PING-PONG. He dare not come down too hard on a Democratic president for fear that 2012 will unleash another GOPer in the White House.

Tabacco used the same Principle as Moore, but I did it much better, using scathing rebukes during the election when necessary and omitting them altogether lest I perform the duties of John McCain’s campaign manager.

THE SITUATION ROOM

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/24/sitroom.01.html

MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Any time you don't fight for the thing you want, any time that you start off compromising, you're never going to get what you want. He started off with a compromised position:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/24/sitroom.02.html

BLITZER: Israeli diplomats walked out when the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spoke at the U.N. General Assembly yesterday.

An American basketball team potentially in one Russian's hands; a multimillion-dollar bid to invest in a team could help the NBA. We're standing by for details.

And Michael Moore, he is here in THE SITUATION ROOM talking about his newest film, which takes direct aim at capitalism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: For a documentary filmmaker, I have done very well.

BLITZER: You've done very well and there's the allegations of...

(CROSS TALK)

MOORE: Why am I against capitalism if I've done so well?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/24/sitroom.03.html

Interview With Michael Moore; President Obama Tested on World Stage

Aired September 24, 2009 - 18:00   ET

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And, to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

What's Michael Moore so angry about? This hour, my in-depth interview with the filmmaker about his new movie assault on the capitalist system. I will press him about his take on politics, his own wealth and the state of the economy.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in CNN's command center for breaking news, politics and extraordinary reports from around the world. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.


He took on the health care system in his film "Sicko". Now the filmmaker Michael Moore is taking on the entire capitalist system. Just ahead, I will press Michael Moore about his new movie and whether people may walk away thinking he is a socialist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What you're saying is, we don't have a democracy?

MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: I'm saying we don't have a complete democracy if the economy is not a democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Michael Moore is known for taking on some of the most powerful institutions in the United States, including the auto industry and the health care system. Now Moore is going after his biggest target yet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And joining us now, the filmmaker Michael Moore. His new movie is entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

Michael, thanks very much for joining us.

MOORE: Hey, Wolf. It's great to be back with you again. It's -- this is our first meeting here in a couple of years, since the big -- the big YouTube moment that we had with each other.

BLITZER: We had a moment following the movie "Sicko", which was obviously a very powerful movie. And I haven't seen this one yet. I'm hoping to see it in the next few days, but a lot of people saying it's very powerful as well.

And it deals with capitalism, right?

MOORE: Yes. well, yes, it deals with a system of legalized greed. And they call that capitalism now.

I think capitalism probably used to mean something else a long time ago. But right now, it's a system that is really no better than any kind of Ponzi scheme that guarantees that the very few at the top, in this case the richest 1 percent in America, have more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent combined.

The richest 1 percent's on top of that pyramid and they get everybody else in the rest of the pyramid thinking, if they just work hard, they could get to the top of the pyramid too someday. But of course there's only room for a few people at the top of that pyramid. I just don't think that if we're going to call this a democracy, that we should allow the economy to be anything other than run democratically. You and I should have a say in how this economy is run. It should not just be...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Supposedly, we do, by electing presidents and senators and congressmen, local officials. Supposedly, we have a say in all of that.

And we will get to that in a few moments. But let's talk about -- most people going to see this movie who don't like you are going to say, you know what? Michael Moore has done pretty well in this capitalist or free market system. You've become a fairly rich guy yourself.
Tabacco: Wolf misses the point entirely, either by myopia or deliberate design! How did Moore become “rich”? By making anti-establishment documentaries!

In addition, it rarely happens, but it is conceivable that a wealthy man could empathize with the disenfranchised majority and not want to deny the other 95% simply because he has made it and wants the rest to fail – like Clarence Thomas!

MOORE: Well, first of all, Wolf, there's nobody that doesn't like me. I don't know who these people are.

BLITZER: There are a few.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: If you have a list of names...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: A tiny number out there.

MOORE: Provide me with those names, and I will go to their homes and cook them dinner. And perhaps they will like me better.

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: So, yes. Your point was, I have done well. Yes, for a documentary filmmaker, I have done very well.

BLITZER: You've done very well. And the allegations of...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: ... you're being hypocritical.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Explain, because you're hearing a lot of that.

MOORE: Why am I against capitalism if I have done so well?

BLITZER: Right.

MOORE: Isn't the question better put -- and I'm not trying to do your job for you -- but wouldn't the question better be, gee, Mike, you have done so well. Why don't you just kick back at the lake and enjoy life? Why are you caring about all these people losing their health care and their jobs and all that? You're not losing yours?

I wonder if there was like a Wolf Blitzer like 200 years ago who asked Thomas Jefferson or John Adams or George Washington, hey, you know, you guys are wealthy landowners. You have benefited from the king's system. What are you complaining about? What is this revolt all about?

It's like, sometimes, people, even people who have actually had the good fortune and blessings in life to not have to struggle with worrying about their health care, whether or not it's going to be here tomorrow or the next week, sometimes, those people actually are willing to take great risks and create sacrifices for themselves, in the hopes that others will have it just as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So, just to respond to the charge that either has been made or will be made that Michael Moore is being hypocritical, you're saying?

MOORE: The charge that will be made. I love it. Now that we're -- where, actually, I have to respond to things that people are going to say to me in the future. I can do that. I can do that, Wolf.

BLITZER: You know it's going to be...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You've made a lot of money. So, let's go ahead and respond.

MOORE: Yes. Yes. What's the charge again that will happen?

BLITZER: Hypocrisy.

MOORE: Hypocrisy over what?

BLITZER: That you have made a lot of money in this free enterprise, capitalist system, and now you're railing against it.

MOORE: I know. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing, that I actually -- I actually, with a high school education, through my hard work and my ideas, have done OK, and then -- and that I still want to do these things to help people who have it worse off than I, that I'm actually following through on the religious principles that I was raised with that I will be judged by how I treat the least among us?

And I think -- I just think that's an interesting question.

BLITZER: Well, you call capitalism evil, right?

MOORE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: ... what we have now.

BLITZER: What do you want to replace it with?

MOORE: I want to replace it with democracy.

I want an economic system that's run with democratic principles and has a moral and ethical core to it. I want you and I and all the people watching to be able to have a say. And when you say, oh, we get to elect or representatives, well, you and I know the truth of that, that hundreds of millions of dollars are spent every year on lobbying Congress.

And you and I don't have that kind of money to spend on that. So, the average person doesn't get to see the things they would like to see happen. Otherwise, the 75 percent who want universal health care would have universal health care right now.

BLITZER: So, what you're saying is, we don't have a democracy?

MOORE: I'm saying we don't have a complete democracy if the economy is not a democracy.

You can't call it a democracy just because I get to vote every two or four years. There has to be democracy in the economy. There should be democracy in the workplace.

What's wrong with democracy? Why do these companies hate America? What is it about America and our love of democracy where they just go, oh, that's -- that's not good; we think the 1 percent, the richest 1 percent, should be calling all the shots, should be buying the politicians, making the decisions? That's the kind of democracy they like, where the 1 percent control everything.

It's just -- it's not right, it's not fair, it's not American, and it's not part of our Judeo-Christian ethic or whatever religion you belong to. Buddhism, Islam, all the great religions are opposed to the wealthy being in charge and letting the poor suffer as a result of that.

Tabacco: Michael Moore has had 20 years to practice the art, but notice how cleverly he has reversed the accusation away from Michael Moore onto the Elite where it belongs! Wolf attempted to get Moore to say we don’t have democracy, which would go over like a lead balloon because most proselytized Americans erroneously think we do!

Moore correctly assesses that Capitalists in general do not want true democracy, which conflicts directly with their PROFITS! The fault lies not with Michael, the messenger, but with Corporate Capitalists – get ‘em, Tiger!

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Which country has an economic system you like?

Tabacco: One more MYTH of Capitalists! Whom should we emulate? If there is no other exemplary System, then don’t we already have the best? That presumes we must imitate, not originate. It also implies if it does not already exist, once again we must already have the best. Of course, having the “Best” is often DAMNING WITH FAINT PRAISE!

MOORE: Well, I don't think that this is -- I don't think that exists yet.

I think that we're -- we're talking about usually two ideologies, capitalism and socialism. One's a 16th century idea. One's a 19th century idea. We're in the 21st century. Can't we come up with our own system that meets the needs of this new era and has democracy at its core?

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So, you don't -- you're not a socialist? Are you a socialist? I will just ask the question.
Tabacco: After centuries turning “Socialism” into a 4-letter word, with no small assist from the Communists and their like (Capitalists in Socialists’ rhetoric), Wolf attempts to back Moore into an American box that Americans have been proselytized against since King George III. But Michael does NOT TAKE THE BAIT! Moore refuses to allow Wolf to set the ground rules with Capitalist Sophistry!

This is comparable to GOPers saying in 2003, “If you disagree with Bush invading Iraq because Saddam contributed to 9/11, then are you un-American or anti-American? Come on now, which is it!”

Wolf plays the Sophist’s game well himself as did those, who attempted to box Jesus Christ into a political corner from which he would never be able to extricate himself.

MOORE: I'm a Christian. And I'm a heterosexual, too, if you want to know that.
Tabacco: Moore can play that game too! He must have studied either Socrates, Christ or both!

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But, as far as socialism is concerned, would some emerge from this movie saying Michael Moore is a socialist?

MOORE: Oh, no.

When you walk out of this movie, first of all, you will have had one of the best laughs throughout this film that you have had in a long time, all at the expense of the people down on Wall Street, I might add.

You're going to walk out of this film saying Michael Moore loves this country. Michael Moore is a true patriot. He loves democracy. Michael Moore is following through on the values that his parents and the nuns and the priests gave him as a child.

He considers -- he believes that he is his brother's keeper. He believes that he will be judged by how he treats the least among us in this society. And that's why I encourage -- if there are people, who maybe disagree with me politically on other issues, at least, on this one, this film is not about Democrats or Republicans.

In fact, I go after a number of Democrats who are also on the take. We're all in the same boat here, us Americans.

BLITZER: All right.

MOORE: And we're going to sink or swim together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Stick around. There's a lot more coming in from Michael Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It sounds to me you're disappointed in President Obama's economic advisers.

MOORE: Oh, disappointed? Why do you use such mild language, Wolf!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You're going to hear what the controversial filmmaker has to say about President Obama's handling of the economy and about the banking industry.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More of my interview with Michael Moore coming up. What would he do if he came face to face with a bank CEO? You're going to find out -- more of the interview coming up.

(NEWS BREAK)

BLITZER: The filmmaker Michael Moore, he has some very strong opinions about lots of subjects, including the war in Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOORE: It goes all the way back to that time. But this -- I'm telling you, there's -- there's no way to win this, President Obama, and it's going to have to be decided by the people in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, more of my interview coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now more of my interview with the filmmaker Michael Moore, whose new movie is entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: "The New York Times", in its review of the movie, said -- among other things, they said this: "In the end, what is to be done? After watching 'Capitalism', it beats me. Mr. Moore doesn't have any real answers either, which tends to be true of most socially minded directors in the commercial mainstream, and speaks more to the limits of such filmmaking than to anything else."

Do you have real answers in the movie?

MOORE: Yes. I talk about democracy in the workplace and how to reconstruct our jobs. I talk about how this economy could be controlled by the majority instead of the 1 percent. That's actually -- the review in "The New York Times" was really an excellent review. But she's pointing out the limitations, obviously, with a two-hour movie, that I'm not an economist and I'm not going to be able to lay everything out in two hours.

I make these movies in the hopes of engaging with other Americans, starting a discussion, a debate, whatever it is, so that we get ourselves out of the rut that we're in. We're in -- we're in a place now where, I mean, here we are a year later, Wolf, after this crash and there are still no new regulations. They're still running loose in downtown Manhattan and...

BLITZER: So let -- let me ask you, if you're in a room...

MOORE: ...nobody's in charge.

BLITZER: If you're in a room with the CEOs of Bank of America or Wells Fargo, Citibank, and you're in that room with them, what would you say to them?

MOORE: I'd say, "How come I've got to pay $2.50 every time I go to the ATM machine to that bank and then you charge me $2.50? It's like $5. If I want to take out $20, then you're taking $5 from me. What's that all about?"

Of course, we know what that's about. There used to be things called banks and tellers, you know, where you walked in. It didn't cost you any money to get your own money. It's a -- it's just a little example of what these...

BLITZER: But ATMs are much more convenient.

MOORE: ...what these banks do. Well, they're -- yes, they're -- they're more convenient and they're also cheaper than having a bank and paying tellers. They're actually -- they've saved money doing this. (And still they charge us more while saving money themselves!) But -- I mean, I'm being a little facetious here.

What I would say to the CEOs of -- of these banks is, "You know, this is our country. It's not your country. You're supposed to be there to serve the public good. You're supposed to be there as a place where we can put our money so that it's safe. And instead, you've taken our money. You've taken our pensions. You've taken people's 401(k)s. And you've -- you've gambled with it in these crazy, betting against bets and taking out insurance and credit- default swaps.

What have you done?

Who do you think you are?

We want our money back. We want our money back and you'd better find it because the people are coming."

BLITZER: What did you think of President Obama's decision to bail them out?

MOORE: You mean President Bush's decision to bail them out...
Tabacco: Mike doesn’t let Wolf get away with anything! Wolf’s tricks don’t work on Michael Moore! Beware of CNN SOPHISTS!

BLITZER: But...

MOORE: ...President Obama...

BLITZER: And then President Obama continued that.

MOORE: Which -- yes, right. OK. But let's...

BLITZER: Well, let's take a look...

MOORE: Let's not revise history here, Wolf! I mean...

BLITZER: Oh, no, no, no. I've covered all this.
Tabacco: Sophists don’t like it when their tricks are exposed! Wolf rushes to divert attention from his exposed HALF-TRUTH!

MOORE: Mr. President...

BLITZER: Let's go back to Clinton...

MOORE: President...

BLITZER: ... President Clinton...

MOORE: President Clinton.

BLITZER: ...President Bush and President Obama.

MOORE: Correct.

BLITZER: Let's put pictures of all three of them up on the screen.

MOORE: Yes.

BLITZER: And they all basically, when it comes to the economy, seem to have pretty much a consistent posture, but correct me if I'm wrong.

MOORE: No, I think you are wrong. President Clinton presided over the deregulation that -- that started this whole mess.

BLITZER: He was there with Phil Graham at that signing ceremony when he deregulated so much of the banking industry. I was there, as well.

MOORE: And what -- and what do you think President Clinton thinks about that now?

BLITZER: He probably thinks it's a mistake.

MOORE: Yes. I think so. And, you know, I think he's a big enough guy to -- to admit that, too. President Bush, well, we know what he thinks. It was in "The New Yorker" this week, the story where he said to Ben Bernanke and to Henry Paulson, "Hey, boys, one of these days, you've got to tell me exactly what happened here."
Tabacco: George W. Bush can never be accused of hoarding IQ points!

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Right.

MOORE: OK. Now, President Obama. He's inherited a catastrophe -- a catastrophe that he did not create.

BLITZER: How has he handled it?
Tabacco: Let’s rush past Bush, the Creator, and go straight to Obama, the Solutionist! Does Wolf sound like a Republican APOLOGIST to you!

MOORE: Well, I think the jury's out on that. I think he, first of all, he tried to find ways to put people back to work. The unemployment rate continues to go up, which, of course, then the Dow Jones goes up -- the Dow Jones goes up whenever the unemployment rate goes up, because Wall Street likes it when people lose their jobs. It's better for the bottom line of companies when they don't have to pay people and they can get the remaining people to work twice as hard.

But, you know, listen, I trust President Obama, where his heart is at, who he is as a person. And we're going to have to wait and see. I mean, I don't know much more to say about that. We're just (INAUDIBLE)...
Tabacco: Bush took 8 years to get us into this mess, but Obama must be scourged if he doesn’t extricate us from it in 8 months? GOPer Sophistry at its most inequitable Double Standard worst!

BLITZER: Because if you take a... MOORE: ...president for eight months.

BLITZER: If you take a look at the men and women who he's put in place to run this economy of ours -- you know, he's asked Ben Bernanke now, the Federal Reserve chairman to stay on. Timothy Geithner, who used to run the Federal Reserve in New York, he's the Treasury Secretary. Larry Summers.

What do you think of his top economic team?

MOORE: He's like my dad, you know. Like, when I made a mess when I was a kid, he'd always make me clean it up. And so he's brought in the -- the people who helped create the mess -- Geithner, Summers, Rubin. He's brought them into his administration and then he's said, "OK, boys, you -- you created this, now you've got to clean it up."

It's the same thing banks do. You know, banks hire bank robbers or -- you know, reformed bank robbers -- to come in and advise them on how to avoid being robbed. And I'm hoping that President Obama has brought these individuals in to advise him how to fix the very system that they helped erect.

BLITZER: Because Bob Rubin, the former Treasury secretary, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, he was an adviser during the campaign, but he hasn't been brought in to the government. He's been on the outside.

MOORE: That's correct. He -- yes. So about -- so his -- the people that he mentored when he was at the Treasury Department, Mr. Summers and Mr. Geithner, you know.

And now it's sort of up to them to see whom they are going to side with -- are they with us or are they with Wall Street?

BLITZER: But it sounds to me like you're -- but correct me, once again, if you're -- if I'm wrong. It sounds to me you're disappointed in President Obama's economic advisers.

MOORE: Oh disappointed.

Why do you use such mild language, Wolf?

BLITZER: Well, tell us how you feel. Tell us how you really feel, Michael.

MOORE: Well, listen, I mean, you've got the foxes in charge of the hen house right now. That's how -- that's what it looks like to me. So -- but, President Obama's in charge. And myself and tens of millions of people are counting on him to do the right thing.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: And that's not all Michael Moore is saying. In part three of my interview, he wants President Obama to know something else. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: From your heart, tell the president of the United States what you want.

MOORE: Well, I would say, President Obama, first of all, thank you for taking on this job. I...

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: He then goes on to urge the president to urge the president to really fight for universal health care. Michael Moore explains why health reform -- serious health reform, he says -- could help the president.

And then Moore makes a prediction -- if the president doesn't bring home U.S. troops from Afghanistan, and very quickly, Moore says the president will pay politically.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now the rest of my interview with the filmmaker, Michael Moore, who has a new film out entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

He weighs in here about President Obama's push for health care reform.

BLITZER: Do you think he's doing the right thing now in compromising on health care?

We all remember the movie "Sicko". And you made a very compelling case for single-payer nationalized health insurance. At one point in his life, he liked that.

Listen to what then politician Barack Obama said back in 2003.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan. (INAUDIBLE) the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, is spending 14 percent -- 14 percent of its gross national product on health care and cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That's what President Obama said back in 2003. But now he's backed away from that as president of the United States and he seems to be backing away even from the so-called public option, which would allow the government -- a government-run health insurance company to compete with the private insurance companies.

Is this what you wanted?

MOORE: Well, here's the -- here's the problem with President Obama on the health insurance proposal. He's a nice guy. You know, I mean, really, I believe he came into the White House with an olive branch to the people on the other side of the aisle. He believed in bipartisanship. I mean you've got to give the guy credit. He really -- he did not come in wanting to fight. He came in saying, you know, we're all Americans here and we need to fix this and we need to put aside this partisan stuff.

The other side didn't want to put it aside. The other side wanted to fight him tooth and nail. And -- and as part of his nice guy thing, he -- he backs a half measure, a public option.

BLITZER: But that might not even...

MOORE: And we (INAUDIBLE)...

BLITZER: That might not even make the final bill that he signs.

MOORE: And that may not. Well, of course not, because any time you don't fight for the thing you want, any time that you start off compromising, you're never going to get what you want. He started off with a compromise position -- let the private insurance companies still sit at the table, have a public option. He should have started with what he truly believes in, what he believed in, what he said in 2003, a single payer, national health care system, like all other Western countries have. We should have the same thing.

I know he believes in that, but he was trying to reach out and say, you know what, I'm not just going to come in here and ram this, so I'm willing to work with you and listen to your concerns. They don't want to listen to him.

BLITZER: It sounds like you think he's naive..

MOORE: I don't think -- no, I'm -- no. No, I -- no, I'm saying that he's operating with those same Christian values that I spoke of. I think that he -- I think that he is a generous person with a very open heart and was willing to work with people who had no intention of ever working with him.

So now that he's realized that, now that he's got to go back to the drawing board and come back with something, because you see, Wolf, the reason he -- you know, he's out there alone. I mean nobody really has his back on this because the base is not energized by a half measure.

BLITZER: Why is that because there seems...

MOORE: If he's going to come out . . .

BLITZER: ...to be so much rage on the right right now...

MOORE: Because -- because they believe in something.

BLITZER: ...and there doesn't seem to be the same kind of passion on the left.

Why is that?

MOORE: No. Because -- because he hasn't proposed something that -- that liberals, Democrats, the left, whatever, progressive people, decent people who think when people get sick they should be able to see a doctor and not have to worry about paying for it -- you know, those kind of people. He just -- he just needs to -- when he comes forth with a single payer proposal, something that's going to provide true universal health care for all Americans, you are going to see millions of people -- millions of people -- backing him. It will look -- make those town hall meetings look like The Disney Channel.

BLITZER: But there doesn't seem to be any indication, Michael, he's about to do anything resembling that. As I said before, he seems to be backing away even from that compromise of a so-called public option.

MOORE: Right. OK, right, but he hasn't watched this show yet. So . . .

BLITZER: All right, so give me the message. If you could -- and he might be watching this interview right now. From your heart, tell the president of the United States what you want.

MOORE: Well, I would say, President Obama, first of all, thank you for taking on this job. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So thank you for being willing to do that for us. We need you to really -- to really fight the fight for us -- us, the majority of the people who put you in there. We are the majority of this country.

Seventy-five percent of this country wants universal health care for all Americans. We're sick and tired of having the middle man -- the private insurance company -- get between us and our doctors, us and the hospital, us and the pharmaceuticals that people need. You've got to really come forth now with a program that guarantees this for all Americans. And if you do that, you're going to find tens of millions of us out there behind you, supporting you every step of the way.

BLITZER: You also made a powerful movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11", in which you really went after President Bush and the buildup and the war in Iraq. All of us remember that movie, as well.

Right now, this president, President Obama, he's at a pivotal moment in the war in Afghanistan because the generals now say, you know, we need another 30,000 or 40,000 troops. He's already committed another 20,000. About 68,000 U.S. troops are in Afghanistan right now. The situation doesn't seem to be going well at all. Speak to President Obama, what he should do right now as far as Afghanistan is concerned.

MOORE: Well, he's got to stop sending troops there and he's got to bring the troops there home. Otherwise, we will stop thinking of this war as Bush's war and it will become Obama's war. This is a losing proposition. He must know this. History has proven nobody can win there. That's just -- if he doesn't believe that, Gorbachev's number is in the book. I don't think he can get a hold of Genghis Khan. It goes all the way back to that time.

But this -- I'm telling you, there's -- there's no way to win this, President Obama. And it's going to have to be decided by the people in Afghanistan. You can't deliver freedom and democracy through the barrel of a gun. We know that. That's -- I mean we -- we -- the French couldn't have come to the United States and freed us from the British. We had to do it ourselves. The French could help, but we had to do it ourselves.

And this has to be left to the people in Afghanistan. And they're probably owed a huge apology from us by now considering what, you know, we've done.

BLITZER: All right...

MOORE: And, hopefully, we'll be able to help rebuild them when they get things straightened out. But this war can't continue.

BLITZER: He says, this is a war of necessity, not a war of choice, because al Qaeda, bin Laden, the Taliban . . .

MOORE: Right.

BLITZER: ...these are the people responsible for killing 3,000 Americans in New York on 9/11 and Pennsylvania and here in Washington -- Washington, D.C. And he says, as a result, the United States must fight and win and destroy them.

MOORE: Yes. The United States must fight and find the people who committed the mass murder here in New York City, in Washington, D.C. And in that field in Pennsylvania. Absolutely right. And if we had had a president eight years ago who would have done that, you know, we might have -- we might not be in the situation we're in now. So, again, he's inherited another horrible mess that he has to extract us from. But I know -- I'm certain he's committed to finally, finally having a commander in chief who's going to track down the people that committed this mass murder and bring them to justice.

BLITZER: But supposedly they're either in Afghanistan or Pakistan right now.

You'd just walk away from them?

MOORE: I believe that he knows how to get this job done and I -- I hope he knows that it can't be done with a lot of tanks and planes and 100,000 troops. That's not what's going to make us safe here in this country. These people are criminals and murderers and they need to be got -- they need to -- we need to go and apprehend them.

BLITZER: On that note, I will leave it. Michael Moore's new film is entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

Michael, don't wait another two or three years to come back to THE SITUATION ROOM. We like to have you here more often. MOORE: I won't, Wolf. And I, you know, we are -- we are joined together once again like two men never have been. And it's been a special, special moment for me here.

BLITZER: Thank you.

MOORE: A forbidden love.

BLITZER: And Rutgers University is getting a nice bit of publicity in the process, as well.

Michael, thanks very much.

MOORE: Thank you very much, Wolf.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: She's deeply, deeply angered -- we're talking about the governor of New York State, accusing the president of being unfair. Stand by for details.

And when you watch this video from ABC's "Dancing With The Stars", you might call it Hammer time. The man known as The Hammer, the former House majority leader, Tom DeLay, survives a dance competition. Now, lawmakers who know him decide if he can bust a move.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: On our Political Ticker, the wife of the New York governor, David Paterson, is now speaking out on reports President Obama has asked her husband not to run for re-election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY WNBC)

MICHELLE PATERSON, NEW YORK FIRST LADY: I think by the White House getting involved in state politics, I had never heard of a president asking a sitting governor not to run for re-election. I thought it was very unusual and very unfair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: She also thinks her husband's blindness "most definitely" contributed to his low poll numbers.

Democrat Paul Kirk says he's honored to help make Ted Kennedy's dying wish a reality. Kirk was tapped today to temporarily fill Kennedy's seat in the U.S. Senate. Governor Deval Patrick appointed him with the blessing of the Kennedy family. He's a former aid to Senator Kennedy. He'll serve until a special election is held in Massachusetts in January.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has a double digit lead with less than six weeks to go until election day. A new Quinnipiac University poll shows 52 percent back the Independent mayor, who's running for a third term. Thirty-six percent back Democrat William Thompson.

Remember, for the latest political news at any time, you can always check out CNNPolitics.com. You can find out what's going on behind-the-scenes. I'm now also on Twitter. Go to Twitter.com/wolfblitzercnn -- wolfblitzercnn all one word.

The former House majority leader, Tom DeLay, is "Dancing With The Stars". The Republican once known as The Hammer, makes -- makes it past the first round on ABC's "Dancing With the Stars". Jeanne Moos will show us how he did it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's a look at some Hot Shots.

At the United Nations, the prime minister of Japan listens to President Obama chair a meeting.

In Germany, visitors take a ride during Oktoberfest.

In Afghanistan, a U.S. Marine captain shakes hands before holding a meeting with locals.

And in Paris, 20-year-old Laurie Mackalroy (ph) from Northern Ireland tees off for the Vivendi Trophy.

Hot Shots -- pictures worth a thousand words.

You may have seen Tom DeLay's Moost Unusual moves on the hit show, "Dancing With The Stars". He didn't exactly impress the judges, but what about his political colleagues?

Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): It was a side of Tom DeLay we've never seen before.

(VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: Some critics were merciless.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY FOX NEWS)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it was the most awesome train wreck I have ever seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: But the train wreck stayed on the tracks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "DANCING WITH THE STARS," COURTESY ABC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tom and Cheryl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: The former House majority leader made the cut and will stay on "Dancing With The Stars" for at least another week.

(VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: But what do his former Congressional colleagues think, Republican Senators?

SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R-GA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I had no idea that Tom DeLay is obviously related to Fred Astaire.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R-UT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I thought he had a lot of guts to do that. My goodness, I -- I was quite impressed with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you think he was good?

HATCH: Yes.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: He's got guts, determination and he's not a bad dancer. I was sort of surprised, quite frankly.

(VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: But it didn't make this Republican congressman's heart sing.

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Those moves were painful. Careful, I just ate lunch. That was -- that was pretty sick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "DANCING WITH THE STARS", COURTESY ABC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tom DeLay, I know what you're thinking. You don't have to work as hard as everyone else because you're a white, middle-aged Republican and dancing comes naturally to you people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: Since Tom DeLay survived the first cut, maybe you'd like to see the guy who didn't, George Hamilton's actor son.

(VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: Already naysayers are predicting that Tom DeLay will be next on the loser's couch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE," COURTESY ABC)

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: Because he looks ridiculous dancing. And I have a feeling he's going to be here next week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: But at least this won't be the last outfit we get to eyeball.

CHAFFETZ: Man, that brown spandex polyester suit. I mean, we haven't seen that since Ronald Reagan.

MOOS (on camera): The real bottom line question -- will we ever again be able to hear "Wild Thing"...

(MUSIC)

MOOS: ...without thinking of this thing?

(VIDEO CLIP)

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: I agree with Orrin Hatch. He has guts to do that.

Thanks very much for joining us.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Up next, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" -- Lou.

Tabacco: I couldn't resist republishing this Trivial stuff, which condemns both CNN and ABC!

THE SITUATION ROOM

'People's Uprising' in Pittsburgh; Protesters vs. Economic Powers; African Hero or Violent Dictator?

Aired September 24, 2009 - 15:59   ET

BLITZER: Let's bring in our CNN contributor Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, and Republican strategist John Feehery.

Guys, thanks very much for coming in.

I had a long and -- and detailed interview with the filmmaker Michael Moore that we're going to air in our 6:00 p.m. Eastern hour. He doesn't shy away from tough stuff. He's a great admirer of President Obama.

But he has this to say about Obama and health care. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Any time you don't fight for the thing you want, any time that you start off compromising, you're never going to get what you want. He started off with a compromised position. Let the private insurance companies still sit at the table. Have a public option.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: He wants a single-payer option. He says it's good enough for Canada, for England, France, other Western industrialized democracies; why can't it happen here? He hates the fact that the president is compromising and giving up what he himself, the president, said he would like to do back in 2003.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/24/sitroom.01.html


THE SITUATION ROOM

Interview With Michael Moore; President Obama Tested on World Stage

Aired September 24, 2009 - 17:00   ET

FEYERICK: Now, the joint terrorism task force is urgently searching for chemicals they believe alleged terrorists may have been getting ready to move using that truck. As for the imam, he has an electronic monitoring bracelet. His lawyer says he was contacting Zazi at the request of police and not because he was trying to tip anyone off -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Deborah Feyerick, thanks very much. A major, major development today.

He took on the health care system in his film "Sicko". Now the filmmaker Michael Moore is taking on the entire capitalist system. Just ahead, I will press Michael Moore about his new movie and whether people may walk away thinking he is a socialist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What you're saying is, we don't have a democracy?

MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: I'm saying we don't have a complete democracy if the economy is not a democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Michael Moore is known for taking on some of the most powerful institutions in the United States, including the auto industry and the health care system. Now Moore is going after his biggest target yet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And joining us now, the filmmaker Michael Moore. His new movie is entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

Michael, thanks very much for joining us!

MOORE: Hey, Wolf. It's great to be back with you again. It's -- this is our first meeting here in a couple of years, since the big -- the big YouTube moment that we had with each other.

BLITZER: We had a moment following the movie "Sicko", which was obviously a very powerful movie. And I haven't seen this one yet. I'm hoping to see it in the next few days, but a lot of people saying it's very powerful as well.

And it deals with capitalism, right?

MOORE: Yes. Well, yes, it deals with a system of legalized greed. And they call that capitalism now.

I think capitalism probably used to mean something else a long time ago. But right now, it's a system that is really no better than any kind of Ponzi scheme that guarantees that the very few at the top, in this case the richest 1 percent in America, have more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent combined.

The richest 1 percent's on top of that pyramid and they get everybody else in the rest of the pyramid thinking, if they just work hard, they could get to the top of the pyramid too someday. But of course there's only room for a few people at the top of that pyramid. I just don't think that if we're going to call this a democracy, that we should allow the economy to be anybody other than run democratically. You and I should have a say in how this economy is run. It should not just be...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Supposedly, we do, by electing presidents and senators and congressmen, local officials. Supposedly, we have a say in all of that.

And we will get to that in a few moments. But let's talk about -- most people going to see this movie who don't like you are going to say, you know what? Michael Moore has done pretty well in this capitalist or free market system. You've become a fairly rich guy yourself.

MOORE: Well, first of all, Wolf, there's nobody that doesn't like me. I don't know who these people are.

BLITZER: There are a few.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: If you have a list of names...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: A tiny number out there.

MOORE: Provide me with those names, and I will go to their homes and cook them dinner. And perhaps they will like me better.

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: So, yes. Your point was, I have done well. Yes, for a documentary filmmaker, I have done very well.

BLITZER: You've done very well. And the allegations of...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: ... you're being hypocritical.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Explain, because you're hearing a lot of that.

MOORE: Why am I against capitalism if I have done so well?

BLITZER: Right.

MOORE: Isn't the question better put -- and I'm not trying to do your job for you -- but wouldn't the question better be, gee, Mike, you have done so well. Why don't you just kick back at the lake and enjoy life? Why are you caring about all these people losing their health care and their jobs and all that? You're not losing yours?

I wonder if there was like a Wolf Blitzer like 200 years ago who asked Thomas Jefferson or John Adams or George Washington, hey, you know, you guys are wealthy landowners. You have benefited from the king's system. What are you complaining about? What is this revolt all about?

It's like, sometimes, people, even people who have actually had the good fortune and blessings in life to not have to struggle with worrying about their health care, whether or not it's going to be here tomorrow or the next week, sometimes, those people actually are willing to take great risks and create sacrifices for themselves, in the hopes that others will have it just as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So, just to respond to the charge that either has been made or will be made that Michael Moore is being hypocritical, you're saying?

MOORE: The charge that will be made. I love it. Now that we're -- where, actually, I have to respond to things that people are going to say to me in the future. I can do that. I can do that, Wolf.

BLITZER: You know it's going to be...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You've made a lot of money. So, let's go ahead and respond.

MOORE: Yes. Yes. What's the charge again that will happen?

BLITZER: Hypocrisy.

MOORE: Hypocrisy over what?

BLITZER: That you have made a lot of money in this free enterprise, capitalist system, and now you're railing against it.

MOORE: I know. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing, that I actually -- I actually, with a high school education, through my hard work and my ideas, have done OK, and then -- and that I still want to do these things to help people who have it worse off than I, that I'm actually following through on the religious principles that I was raised with that I will be judged by how I treat the least among us?

And I think -- I just think that's an interesting question.

BLITZER: Well, you call capitalism evil, right?

MOORE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: ... what we have now. BLITZER: What do you want to replace it with?

MOORE: I want to replace it with democracy.

I want an economic system that's run with democratic principles and has a moral and ethical core to it. I want you and I and all the people watching to be able to have a say. And when you say, oh, we get to elect or representatives, well, you and I know the truth of that, that hundreds of millions of dollars are spent every year on lobbying Congress.

And you and I don't have that kind of money to spend on that. So, the average person doesn't get to see the things they would like to see happen. Otherwise, the 75 percent who want universal health care would have universal health care right now.

BLITZER: So, what you're saying is, we don't have a democracy?

MOORE: I'm saying we don't have a complete democracy if the economy is not a democracy.

You can't call it a democracy just because I get to vote every two or four years. There has to be democracy in the economy. There should be democracy in the workplace.

What's wrong with democracy? Why do these companies hate America? What is it about America and our love of democracy where they just go, oh, that's -- that's not good; we think the 1 percent, the richest 1 percent, should be calling all the shots, should be buying the politicians, making the decisions? That's the kind of democracy they like, where the 1 percent control everything.

It's just -- it's not right, it's not fair, it's not American, and it's not part of our Judeo-Christian ethic or whatever religion you belong to. Buddhism, Islam, all the great religions are opposed to the wealthy being in charge and letting the poor suffer as a result of that.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Which country has an economic system you like?

MOORE: Well, I don't think that this is -- I don't think that exists yet.

I think that we're -- we're talking about usually two ideologies, capitalism and socialism. One's a 16th century idea. One's a 19th century idea. We're in the 21st century. Can't we come up with our own system that meets the needs of this new era and has democracy at its core?

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So, you don't -- you're not a socialist? Are you a socialist? I will just ask the question.

MOORE: I'm a Christian. And I'm a heterosexual, too, if you want to know that.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But, as far as socialism is concerned, would some emerge from this movie saying Michael Moore is a socialist?

MOORE: Oh, no.

When you walk out of this movie, first of all, you will have had one of the best laughs throughout this film that you have had in a long time, all at the expense of the people down on Wall Street, I might add.

You're going to walk out of this film saying Michael Moore loves this country. Michael Moore is a true patriot. He loves democracy. Michael Moore is following through on the values that his parents and the nuns and the priests gave him as a child.

He considers -- he believes that he is his brother's keeper. He believes that he will be judged by how he treats the least among us in this society. And that's why I encourage -- if there are people who maybe disagree with me politically on other issues, at least, on this one, this film is not about Democrats or Republicans.

In fact, I go after a number of Democrats who are also on the take. We're all in the same boat here, us Americans.

BLITZER: All right.

MOORE: And we're going to sink or swim together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Stick around. There's a lot more coming in from Michael Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It sounds to me you're disappointed in President Obama's economic advisers.

MOORE: Oh, disappointed? Why do you use such mild language, Wolf?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You're going to hear what the controversial filmmaker has to say about President Obama's handling of the economy and about the banking industry.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More of my interview with Michael Moore coming up. What would he do if he came face to face with a bank CEO? You're going to find out -- more of the interview coming up.

(NEWS BREAK)

BLITZER: The filmmaker Michael Moore, he has some very strong opinions about lots of subjects, including the war in Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOORE: It goes all the way back to that time. But this -- I'm telling you, there's -- there's no way to win this, President Obama, and it's going to have to be decided by the people in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, more of my interview coming up right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now more of my interview with the filmmaker Michael Moore, whose new movie is entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: "The New York Times", in its review of the movie, said -- among other things, they said this: "In the end, what is to be done? After watching 'Capitalism', it beats me. Mr. Moore doesn't have any real answers either, which tends to be true of most socially minded directors in the commercial mainstream, and speaks more to the limits of such filmmaking than to anything else."

Do you have real answers in the movie?
Tabacco: Clinton & Bush each had 8 years to screw up Capitalism for the Rich, but Moore must remedy those 16-years in 2 hours? A documentary must expose the PROBLEMS or what’s the point, but it is not required to provide SOLUTIONS! A dearth of SOLUTIONS does not demean a documentary! The question should be, "Why is Michael Moore the only one making these documentaries; why not CNN?" I don't hear any Solutions emanating from CNN Talking Heads!

MOORE: Yes. I talk about democracy in the workplace and how to reconstruct our jobs. I talk about how this economy could be controlled by the majority instead of the 1 percent. That's actually -- the review in "The New York Times" was really an excellent review. But she's pointing out the limitations, obviously, with a two-hour movie, that I'm not an economist and I'm not going to be able to lay everything out in two hours.

I make these movies in the hopes of engaging with other Americans, starting a discussion, a debate, whatever it is, so that we get ourselves out of the rut that we're in. We're in -- we're in a place now where, I mean, here we are a year later, Wolf, after this crash and there are still no new regulations. They're still running loose in downtown Manhattan and...

BLITZER: So let -- let me ask you, if you're in a room...

MOORE: ...nobody's in charge.

BLITZER: If you're in a room with the CEOs of Bank of America or Wells Fargo, Citibank, and you're in that room with them, what would you say to them?

MOORE: I'd say, "How come I've got to pay $2.50 every time I go to the ATM machine to that bank and then you charge me $2.50? It's like $5. If I want to take out $20, then you're taking $5 from me. What's that all about?"

Of course, we know what that's about. There used to be things called banks and tellers, you know, where you walked in. It didn't cost you any money to get your own money. It's a -- it's just a little example of what these...

BLITZER: But ATMs are much more convenient.

MOORE: ...what these banks do. Well, they're -- yes, they're -- they're more convenient and they're also cheaper than having a bank and paying tellers. They're actually -- they've saved money doing this. But -- I mean, I'm being a little facetious here.

What I would say to the CEOs of -- of these banks is, "You know, this is our country. It's not your country. You're supposed to be there to serve the public good. You're supposed to be there as a place where we can put our money so that it's safe. And instead, you've taken our money. You've taken our pensions. You've taken people's 401(k)s. And you've -- you've gambled with it in these crazy, betting against bets and taking out insurance and credit- default swaps.

What have you done?

Who do you think you are?

We want our money back. We want our money back and you'd better find it because the people are coming."

BLITZER: What did you think of President Obama's decision to bail them out?

MOORE: You mean President Bush's decision to bail them out...

BLITZER: But...

MOORE: ...President Obama...

BLITZER: And then President Obama continued that.

MOORE: Which -- yes, right. OK. But let's...

BLITZER: Well, let's take a look...

MOORE: Let's not revise history here, Wolf. I mean...

BLITZER: Oh, no, no, no. I've covered all this.

MOORE: Mr. President...

BLITZER: Let's go back to Clinton...

MOORE: President...

BLITZER: ... President Clinton...

MOORE: President Clinton.

BLITZER: ...President Bush and President Obama.

MOORE: Correct.

BLITZER: Let's put pictures of all three of them up on the screen.

MOORE: Yes.

BLITZER: And they all basically, when it comes to the economy, seem to have pretty much a consistent posture, but correct me if I'm wrong.

MOORE: No, I think you are wrong. President Clinton presided over the deregulation that -- that started this whole mess.

BLITZER: He was there with Phil Graham at that signing ceremony when he deregulated so much of the banking industry. I was there, as well.

MOORE: And what -- and what do you think President Clinton thinks about that now?

BLITZER: He probably thinks it's a mistake.

MOORE: Yes. I think so. And, you know, I think he's a big enough guy to -- to admit that, too. President Bush, well, we know what he thinks. It was in "The New Yorker" this week, the story where he said to Ben Bernanke and to Henry Paulson, "Hey, boys, one of these days, you've got to tell me exactly what happened here."

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: Right.

MOORE: OK. Now, President Obama. He's inherited a catastrophe -- a catastrophe that he did not create.

BLITZER: How has he handled it?

MOORE: Well, I think the jury's out on that. I think he, first of all, he tried to find ways to put people back to work. The unemployment rate continues to go up, which, of course, then the Dow Jones goes up -- the Dow Jones goes up whenever the unemployment rate goes up, because Wall Street likes it when people lose their jobs. It's better for the bottom line of companies when they don't have to pay people and they can get the remaining people to work twice as hard.

But, you know, listen, I trust President Obama, where his heart is at, who he is as a person. And we're going to have to wait and see. I mean, I don't know much more to say about that. We're just (INAUDIBLE)...

BLITZER: Because if you take a... MOORE: ...president for eight months.

BLITZER: If you take a look at the men and women who he's put in place to run this economy of ours -- you know, he's asked Ben Bernanke now, the Federal Reserve chairman to stay on. Timothy Geithner, who used to run the Federal Reserve in New York, he's the Treasury Secretary. Larry Summers.

What do you think of his top economic team?

MOORE: He's like my dad, you know. Like, when I made a mess when I was a kid, he'd always make me clean it up. And so he's brought in the -- the people who helped create the mess -- Geithner, Summers, Rubin. He's brought them into his administration and then he's said, "OK, boys, you -- you created this, now you've got to clean it up."

It's the same thing banks do. You know, banks hire bank robbers or -- you know, reformed bank robbers -- to come in and advise them on how to avoid being robbed. And I'm hoping that President Obama has brought these individuals in to advise him how to fix the very system that they helped erect.

BLITZER: Because Bob Rubin, the former Treasury secretary, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, he was an adviser during the campaign, but he hasn't been brought in to the government. He's been on the outside.

MOORE: That's correct. He -- yes. So about -- so his -- the people that he mentored when he was at the Treasury Department, Mr. Summers and Mr. Geithner, you know.

And now it's sort of up to them to see who are they going to side with -- are they with us or are they with Wall Street?

BLITZER: But it sounds to me like you're -- but correct me, once again, if you're -- if I'm wrong. It sounds to me you're disappointed in President Obama's economic advisers.

MOORE: Oh disappointed.

Why do you use such mild language, Wolf?

BLITZER: Well, tell us how you feel. Tell us how you really feel, Michael.

MOORE: Well, listen, I mean, you've got the foxes in charge of the hen house right now. That's how -- that's what it looks like to me. So -- but, President Obama's in charge. And myself and tens of millions of people are counting on him to do the right thing.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: And that's not all Michael Moore is saying. In part three of my interview, he wants President Obama to know something else. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: From your heart, tell the president of the United States what you want.

MOORE: Well, I would say, President Obama, first of all, thank you for taking on this job. I...

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: He then goes on to urge the president to urge the president to really fight for universal health care. Michael Moore explains why health reform -- serious health reform, he says -- could help the president.

And then Moore makes a prediction -- if the president doesn't bring home U.S. troops from Afghanistan, and very quickly, Moore says the president will pay politically.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now the rest of my interview with the filmmaker, Michael Moore, who has a new film out entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

He weighs in here about President Obama's push for health care reform.

BLITZER: Do you think he's doing the right thing now in compromising on health care?

We all remember the movie "Sicko". And you made a very compelling case for single payer nationalized health insurance. At one point in his life, he liked that.

Listen to what then politician Barack Obama said back in 2003.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan. (INAUDIBLE) the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, is spending 14 percent -- 14 percent of its gross national product on health care and cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That's what President Obama said back in 2003. But now he's backed away from that as president of the United States and he seems to be backing away even from the so-called public option, which would allow the government -- a government-run health insurance company to compete with the private insurance companies.

Is this what you wanted?

MOORE: Well, here's the -- here's the problem with President Obama on the health insurance proposal. He's a nice guy. You know, I mean, really, I believe he came into the White House with an olive branch to the people on the other side of the aisle. He believed in bipartisanship. I mean you've got to give the guy credit. He really -- he did not come in wanting to fight. He came in saying, you know, we're all Americans here and we need to fix this and we need to put aside this partisan stuff.

The other side didn't want to put it aside. The other side wanted to fight him tooth and nail. And -- and as part of his nice guy thing, he -- he backs a half measure, a public option.

BLITZER: But that might not even...

MOORE: And we (INAUDIBLE)...

BLITZER: That might not even make the final bill that he signs.

MOORE: And that may not. Well, of course not, because any time you don't fight for the thing you want, any time that you start off compromising, you're never going to get what you want. He started off with a compromise position -- let the private insurance companies still sit at the table, have a public option. He should have started with what he truly believes in, what he believed in, what he said in 2003, a single payer, national health care system, like all other Western countries have. We should have the same thing.

I know he believes in that, but he was trying to reach out and say, you know what, I'm not just going to come in here and ram this, so I'm willing to work with you and listen to your concerns. They don't want to listen to him.

BLITZER: It sounds like you think he's naive..

MOORE: I don't think -- no, I'm -- no. No, I -- no, I'm saying that he's operating with those same Christian values that I spoke of. I think that he -- I think that he is a generous person with a very open heart and was willing to work with people who had no intention of ever working with him.

So now that he's realized that, now that he's got to go back to the drawing board and come back with something, because you see, Wolf, the reason he -- you know, he's out there alone. I mean nobody really has his back on this because the base is not energized by a half measure.

BLITZER: Why is that because there seems...

MOORE: If he's going to come out . . .

BLITZER: ...to be so much rage on the right right now...

MOORE: Because -- because they believe in something.

BLITZER: ...and there doesn't seem to be the same kind of passion on the left.

Why is that?

MOORE: No. Because -- because he hasn't proposed something that -- that liberals, Democrats, the left, whatever, progressive people, decent people who think when people get sick they should be able to see a doctor and not have to worry about paying for it -- you know, those kind of people. He just -- he just needs to -- when he comes forth with a single payer proposal, something that's going to provide true universal health care for all Americans, you are going to see millions of people -- millions of people -- backing him. It will look -- make those town hall meetings look like The Disney Channel.

BLITZER: But there doesn't seem to be any indication, Michael, he's about to do anything resembling that. As I said before, he seems to be backing away even from that compromise of a so-called public option.

MOORE: Right. OK, right, but he hasn't watched this show yet. So . . .

BLITZER: All right, so give me the message. If you could -- and he might be watching this interview right now. From your heart, tell the president of the United States what you want.

MOORE: Well, I would say, President Obama, first of all, thank you for taking on this job. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So thank you for being willing to do that for us. We need you to really -- to really fight the fight for us -- us, the majority of the people who put you in there. We are the majority of this country.

Seventy-five percent of this country wants universal health care for all Americans. We're sick and tired of having the middle man -- the private insurance company -- get between us and our doctors, us and the hospital, us and the pharmaceuticals that people need. You've got to really come forth now with a program that guarantees this for all Americans. And if you do that, you're going to find tens of millions of us out there behind you, supporting you every step of the way.

BLITZER: You also made a powerful movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11", in which you really went after President Bush and the buildup and the war in Iraq. All of us remember that movie, as well.

Right now, this president, President Obama, he's at a pivotal moment in the war in Afghanistan because the generals now say, you know, we need another 30,000 or 40,000 troops. He's already committed another 20,000. About 68,000 U.S. troops are in Afghanistan right now. The situation doesn't seem to be going well at all. Speak to President Obama, what he should do right now as far as Afghanistan is concerned.

MOORE: Well, he's got to stop sending troops there and he's got to bring the troops there home. Otherwise, we will stop thinking of this war as Bush's war and it will become Obama's war. This is a losing proposition. He must know this. History has proven nobody can win there. That's just -- if he doesn't believe that, Gorbachev's number is in the book. I don't think he can get a hold of Genghis Khan. It goes all the way back to that time.

But this -- I'm telling you, there's -- there's no way to win this, President Obama. And it's going to have to be decided by the people in Afghanistan. You can't deliver freedom and democracy through the barrel of a gun. We know that. That's -- I mean we -- we -- the French couldn't have come to the United States and freed us from the British. We had to do it ourselves. The French could help, but we had to do it ourselves.

And this has to be left to the people in Afghanistan. And they're probably owed a huge apology from us by now considering what, you know, we've done.

BLITZER: All right...

MOORE: And, hopefully, we'll be able to help rebuild them when they get things straightened out. But this war can't continue.

BLITZER: He says, this is a war of necessity, not a war of choice, because al Qaeda, bin Laden, the Taliban . . .

MOORE: Right.

BLITZER: ...these are the people responsible for killing 3,000 Americans in New York on 9/11 and Pennsylvania and here in Washington -- Washington, D.C. And he says, as a result, the United States must fight and win and destroy them.

MOORE: Yes. The United States must fight and find the people who committed the mass murder here in New York City, in Washington, D.C. And in that field in Pennsylvania. Absolutely right! And if we had had a president eight years ago who would have done that, you know, we might have -- we might not be in the situation we're in now. So, again, he's inherited another horrible mess that he has to extract us from. But I know -- I'm certain he's committed to finally, finally having a commander in chief who's going to track down the people that committed this mass murder and bring them to justice.

BLITZER: But supposedly they're either in Afghanistan or Pakistan right now.

You'd just walk away from them?

MOORE: I believe that he knows how to get this job done and I -- I hope he knows that it can't be done with a lot of tanks and planes and 100,000 troops. That's not what's going to make us safe here in this country. These people are criminals and murderers and they need to be got -- they need to -- we need to go and apprehend them.

BLITZER: On that note, I will leave it. Michael Moore's new film is entitled "Capitalism: A Love Story".

Michael, don't wait another two or three years to come back to THE SITUATION ROOM. We like to have you here more often. MOORE: I won't, Wolf. And I, you know, we are -- we are joined together once again like two men never have been. And it's been a special, special moment for me here.

BLITZER: Thank you.

MOORE: A forbidden love.

BLITZER: And Rutgers University is getting a nice bit of publicity in the process, as well.

Michael, thanks very much.

MOORE: Thank you very much, Wolf.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/24/sitroom.03.html

Tabacco: How many of Larry King’s and Wolf Blitzer’s questions were RELEVANT?  Don't blame Michael Moore or Tabacco for the TRIVIAL PURSUITS herein - blame CNN! If you ask Trivial Questions, you invite Trivial response!

How many of hose questions missed the mark?

Why do you think that is?

Are you surprised that Tabacco rarely uses CNN, as well as Fox News, as a Source anymore? Do you think I used CNN before because

a) CNN used to be better

b) Tabacco had few other choices

c) Tabacco is smarter now

d)  All of the above



Tabacco: I consider myself both a funnel and a filter. I funnel information, not readily available on the Mass Media, which is ignored and/or suppressed. I filter out the irrelevancies and trivialities to save both the time and effort of my Readers and bring consternation to the enemies of Truth & Fairness! When you read Tabacco, if you don’t learn something NEW, I’ve wasted your time.

Tabacco is not a blogger, who thinks; I am a Thinker, who blogs.

In 1981's 'Body Heat', Kathleen Turner said, "Knowledge is power".

 

T.A.B.A.C.C.O.  (Truth About Business And Congressional Crimes Organization) – Think Tank For Other 95% Of World: WTP = We The People

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